Comments on: Thanks upcoming for another example of how to not work the smart way. http://crueltobekind.org/thanks-upcoming-for-another-example-of-how-to-not-work-the-smart-way-381 Tue, 15 May 2012 09:24:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Franz Patzig http://crueltobekind.org/thanks-upcoming-for-another-example-of-how-to-not-work-the-smart-way-381#comment-538 Franz Patzig Wed, 23 May 2007 14:45:00 +0000 http://crueltobekind.org/thanks-upcoming-for-another-example-of-how-to-not-work-the-smart-way-381#comment-538 I left my address in the states but no t-shirt yet. I was the first who switched and the first who wrote in about the redesign German. I think I should get two :) I left my address in the states but no t-shirt yet. I was the first who switched and the first who wrote in about the redesign German. I think I should get two :)

]]> By: Nicle http://crueltobekind.org/thanks-upcoming-for-another-example-of-how-to-not-work-the-smart-way-381#comment-537 Nicle Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:01:00 +0000 http://crueltobekind.org/thanks-upcoming-for-another-example-of-how-to-not-work-the-smart-way-381#comment-537 It is always the little things. :) The badge thing is to be found here, I think they are working on it. http://upcoming.yahoo.com/badge/ It would also be nice if they would be working on the "little thing" that this thing also starts only displaying events I attend (or at least lets me choose it). So far I am hating the overview page and the more old style on my page is 'broken' due to my travel size laptop - everytim I add a table like this I do enter spaces as non breaking spaces. This way sth like May 23 does not result in May 23 It is always the little things. :)

The badge thing is to be found here, I think they are working on it.
http://upcoming.yahoo.com/badge/

It would also be nice if they would be working on the “little thing” that this thing also starts only displaying events I attend (or at least lets me choose it).

So far I am hating the overview page and the more old style on my page is ‘broken’ due to my travel size laptop – everytim I add a table like this I do enter spaces as non breaking spaces. This way sth like May 23 does not result in
May
23

]]> By: Leisa Reichelt http://crueltobekind.org/thanks-upcoming-for-another-example-of-how-to-not-work-the-smart-way-381#comment-536 Leisa Reichelt Sun, 22 Apr 2007 18:35:00 +0000 http://crueltobekind.org/thanks-upcoming-for-another-example-of-how-to-not-work-the-smart-way-381#comment-536 I'm based in London and was also annoyed with the US/Canada only Tshirt promotion... not so much because they were only shipping to the US/Canada... what they do with their budget is entirely up to them... but I tell them that I'm based in London, yet they choose to use space on my Upcoming homepage to tell me about a promotion in which I cannot participate. That's either mean or pretty unsophisticated. The other thing I've noticed with the Upcoming relaunch is that the Upcoming badge I have on my blog seems to be broken, and I can't find any sign of the badges on the new site... have they disappeared/been decommissioned etc.? Sometimes it's the little things... I’m based in London and was also annoyed with the US/Canada only Tshirt promotion… not so much because they were only shipping to the US/Canada… what they do with their budget is entirely up to them… but I tell them that I’m based in London, yet they choose to use space on my Upcoming homepage to tell me about a promotion in which I cannot participate. That’s either mean or pretty unsophisticated.

The other thing I’ve noticed with the Upcoming relaunch is that the Upcoming badge I have on my blog seems to be broken, and I can’t find any sign of the badges on the new site… have they disappeared/been decommissioned etc.?

Sometimes it’s the little things…

]]> By: Nicole http://crueltobekind.org/thanks-upcoming-for-another-example-of-how-to-not-work-the-smart-way-381#comment-535 Nicole Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:44:00 +0000 http://crueltobekind.org/thanks-upcoming-for-another-example-of-how-to-not-work-the-smart-way-381#comment-535 Neil, Andy, I appreciate you taking the time to go through the blogs and reacting on the comments about the launch. You may not like it very much being called out on that, but it should not surprise you that this behaviour is exactly what "we" get all the time. I understand the part about the voting for features but quite frankly, something basic like the date display does not belong on the list of things I should vote for. It is so so much basic thing to do. As for the market - well. Let me just send you to your own data analyst who should be able to provide you with interesting numbers. Especially the one on statistics where you can look into if the market you are looking at really is this big, given the fact that this is still very geeky. I'd also advise you on trying to find out how much of your user base is non US - and I mean this in a qualified way as in how much do these people actually do in regard with the plattform. And Tim is of course right. Notice that I did not say "make it all" but make it smart. "We did not think about it" is exactly part of the problem. There was a presentation at the web 2 expo where it was about something similar and the answer was "we do not care. and (insert some other fake reasons here)". Andy calls on it being not fair that with all the new support for international users (which btw?) I call on this. I am sorry that I expect basics to be covered before I get bells and whistles ... Neil, Andy, I appreciate you taking the time to go through the blogs and reacting on the comments about the launch. You may not like it very much being called out on that, but it should not surprise you that this behaviour is exactly what “we” get all the time.

I understand the part about the voting for features but quite frankly, something basic like the date display does not belong on the list of things I should vote for. It is so so much basic thing to do.

As for the market – well. Let me just send you to your own data analyst who should be able to provide you with interesting numbers. Especially the one on statistics where you can look into if the market you are looking at really is this big, given the fact that this is still very geeky.

I’d also advise you on trying to find out how much of your user base is non US – and I mean this in a qualified way as in how much do these people actually do in regard with the plattform.

And Tim is of course right. Notice that I did not say “make it all” but make it smart.

“We did not think about it” is exactly part of the problem. There was a presentation at the web 2 expo where it was about something similar and the answer was “we do not care. and (insert some other fake reasons here)”.

Andy calls on it being not fair that with all the new support for international users (which btw?) I call on this. I am sorry that I expect basics to be covered before I get bells and whistles …

]]> By: Tim http://crueltobekind.org/thanks-upcoming-for-another-example-of-how-to-not-work-the-smart-way-381#comment-534 Tim Sat, 21 Apr 2007 07:03:00 +0000 http://crueltobekind.org/thanks-upcoming-for-another-example-of-how-to-not-work-the-smart-way-381#comment-534 Wonderful web2.0 - "But here in the USA, the local market is so big, one usually waits to achieve domestic success before internationalizing." Think about that the domestic success leads often to a international failure, cause of cultural differences. Whats the timeline? Step 1 launching (t1). Step 2 success in the USA (t+1 year). Step 3 Internationalizing (t+1.5 years). Step 4 failure (t+2 years). Step 5 Redesign and adaption to cultural and market differences (t+2.5 years). Step 6 Final failure cause the features are no longer up-to-date (t+3 years). Wonder why yahoo are behind google an many others? Wonderful web2.0 – “But here in the USA, the local market is so big, one usually waits to achieve domestic success before internationalizing.” Think about that the domestic success leads often to a international failure, cause of cultural differences. Whats the timeline? Step 1 launching (t1). Step 2 success in the USA (t+1 year). Step 3 Internationalizing (t+1.5 years). Step 4 failure (t+2 years). Step 5 Redesign and adaption to cultural and market differences (t+2.5 years). Step 6 Final failure cause the features are no longer up-to-date (t+3 years). Wonder why yahoo are behind google an many others?

]]> By: Neil Kandalgaonkar http://crueltobekind.org/thanks-upcoming-for-another-example-of-how-to-not-work-the-smart-way-381#comment-533 Neil Kandalgaonkar Sat, 21 Apr 2007 06:05:00 +0000 http://crueltobekind.org/thanks-upcoming-for-another-example-of-how-to-not-work-the-smart-way-381#comment-533 Hi there, I'm another Upcoming employee. I hear you about the various problems with internationalization. You're right that we don't prioritize simple things like date formats as much as we should, and perhaps that looks like carelessness to you. I'm from Canada and there it is unthinkable to launch without support for multiple national markets. It's probably similar in Europe. But here in the USA, the local market is so big, one usually waits to achieve domestic success before internationalizing. International time and date is also a very highly rated suggestion over here : http://suggestions.yahoo.com/detail/?prop=upcoming&fid=8025 This is one tool we are using to help overcome our domestic biases. Tell your friends to vote for this suggestion and it will be easier for us to justify the development costs. About the t-shirts -- that's an interesting suggestion and the truth is, we simply didn't think of it. It might be too late to reverse our decision, given the number of applications we received already, but I'm sure we'll try harder next time. Anyway, I hope you continue to find Upcoming useful (and even better for you in the near future, I hope). Hi there, I’m another Upcoming employee.

I hear you about the various problems with internationalization. You’re right that we don’t prioritize simple things like date formats as much as we should, and perhaps that looks like carelessness to you.

I’m from Canada and there it is unthinkable to launch without support for multiple national markets. It’s probably similar in Europe. But here in the USA, the local market is so big, one usually waits to achieve domestic success before internationalizing.

International time and date is also a very highly rated suggestion over here :

http://suggestions.yahoo.com/detail/?prop=upcoming&fid=8025

This is one tool we are using to help overcome our domestic biases. Tell your friends to vote for this suggestion and it will be easier for us to justify the development costs.

About the t-shirts — that’s an interesting suggestion and the truth is, we simply didn’t think of it. It might be too late to reverse our decision, given the number of applications we received already, but I’m sure we’ll try harder next time.

Anyway, I hope you continue to find Upcoming useful (and even better for you in the near future, I hope).

]]> By: Nicole http://crueltobekind.org/thanks-upcoming-for-another-example-of-how-to-not-work-the-smart-way-381#comment-532 Nicole Sat, 21 Apr 2007 05:23:00 +0000 http://crueltobekind.org/thanks-upcoming-for-another-example-of-how-to-not-work-the-smart-way-381#comment-532 Andy thanks for proving that you did not understand the point. As I said, I have not played around much with the version yet, thus I cannot judge how this is working out better than before or not. What I was pointing at is that we are fully aware of the problem of shipping cost - but there are ways around it. If you try. Off the top of my head I know at least 20 Germans who have been coming to the Web 2.0 Expo and would be able - and willing - to come back and take shirts with them and send them locally. I would know many other europeans as well. It is the either or thing which annoys me. It is not about shipping to all or not (the version you choose). Andy, I am not dismissing that you try. There have been problems with umlauts for example. But there are many basic things still there which are as annoying, so forgive me that I do not fall on my knees in appreciation. Example: Sat, 5/19 is not a date. 19 is not a month. :) I will work with it once I am back from the states and then talk about features, kay. Andy thanks for proving that you did not understand the point.

As I said, I have not played around much with the version yet, thus I cannot judge how this is working out better than before or not.

What I was pointing at is that we are fully aware of the problem of shipping cost – but there are ways around it. If you try. Off the top of my head I know at least 20 Germans who have been coming to the Web 2.0 Expo and would be able – and willing – to come back and take shirts with them and send them locally.

I would know many other europeans as well. It is the either or thing which annoys me. It is not about shipping to all or not (the version you choose).

Andy, I am not dismissing that you try. There have been problems with umlauts for example. But there are many basic things still there which are as annoying, so forgive me that I do not fall on my knees in appreciation. Example: Sat, 5/19 is not a date. 19 is not a month. :)

I will work with it once I am back from the states and then talk about features, kay.

]]> By: Andy Baio http://crueltobekind.org/thanks-upcoming-for-another-example-of-how-to-not-work-the-smart-way-381#comment-531 Andy Baio Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:39:00 +0000 http://crueltobekind.org/thanks-upcoming-for-another-example-of-how-to-not-work-the-smart-way-381#comment-531 I'm really disappointed by your post. We spent *months* improving our international support in the newest release for users exactly like you, fixing the flaws of the existing metro system and replacing it with something that works well throughout Europe. Would we do that if we didn't care about Europe? We *love* our international users, and we made the hard decision not to ship overseas because it simply wasn't in our budget. We'd already paid for hundreds of free shirts, but European shipping costs were more than the shirts themselves. It's not because we don't love you; it's because we don't have unlimited funds. You can think that we don't care or that we don't think before we act, but it's not true. I’m really disappointed by your post. We spent *months* improving our international support in the newest release for users exactly like you, fixing the flaws of the existing metro system and replacing it with something that works well throughout Europe. Would we do that if we didn’t care about Europe?

We *love* our international users, and we made the hard decision not to ship overseas because it simply wasn’t in our budget. We’d already paid for hundreds of free shirts, but European shipping costs were more than the shirts themselves. It’s not because we don’t love you; it’s because we don’t have unlimited funds. You can think that we don’t care or that we don’t think before we act, but it’s not true.

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